The two new cars I'm looking at are at the bottom of Consumer Reports reliability list. What to do?

"arl" (arl1968)
10/25/2016 at 08:25 • Filed to: None

Damn you Dodge and VW. I love the Challenger and the GTI. I’ve test driven both and I love how they drive. A GTI Autobahn can be had about 10K cheaper than a Challenger R/T plus, and they’re both great cars to drive; one a lithe, turbo sports car, the other a heavy, torque monster. And I love them both for what they are.

I’ve owned both a 1997 Jetta and a 2011 Dodge Charger in the past, and they were a mixed bag of reliability. The Charger was great except it developed electrical issues and I sold it right before the warranty expired. So one strike against Dodge. The 97 VW was solid except taillights would burn out every 1000 miles. Typical VW taillight issue. It was totaled in a wreck near the end of it’s life. So the VW I owned in the past was mostly reliable - for me.

I’ve been perusing the VW and Dodge forums and the issues that get reported on these cars makes me nervous to buy one.

But I have to get out of my slow and boring Accord!

What would you do? Go with the German turbo that may or may not grenade after 30K miles, or go with the Merican’ torque that might turn into a Merry-Go-Round machine with the local service department at the stealership?

DISCUSSION (58)

adamftw > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:33

Who cares what CR says. Learn to work on and diagnose your own stuff and don’t worry about it.

Tripper > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:33

1 for the GTI here

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:35

Who cares what CR thinks? They’re full of shit. Don’t like a car? Use irrelevant stuff like “I don’t like the infotainment system” to bump it up. Like something? Brush off a potential trouble point. The fact that these are “predicted” makes it even easier.

Note the way vehicles with little difference other than badge engineering are in different categories.

vondon302 > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:35

Rt is my vote and personally I don’t trust Consumer reports. No experience with Vw but my Fca experience was mixed. Had a 99 Neon that was a champ 250000 miles and still running when I sold it. 2008 Jeep Liberty was a pos. Both bought new.

yamahog > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:36

Make friends with someone who can look up the customer data/verbatims on those and see if there’s a pattern of things to concerned with. I’m always somewhat skeptical because I’ve seen some stupid shit on CR responses, but then there are totally legit issues. Literally read someone complaining about “too much new car smell added to [vehicle],” and then someone else will be like “well there was [catastrophic failure!] but just once and I still love it!”

arl > adamftw
10/25/2016 at 08:39

Yea, there is that. I’ve never been much of wrench turner; more of paint polisher. But I hear you...

And there is such a thing as an extended warranty as well. That might buy me additional comfort. Of course, the lure of modding these cars might negate some or all of the warranty if there was an issue (I know Magnusson-Moss and all).

arl > yamahog
10/25/2016 at 08:42

Good point, I may do that.

I’ve wondered about the odd reporting. Someone reports that the vents are “canted too far to the left” as a problem. WTF?

arl > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
10/25/2016 at 08:43

Yea....why is Audi near the top and VW at the bottom? Generally same engineering, but in different categories. Hmmmm.

Wobbles the Mind > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:44

Don’t even worry about reliability, buy what you love and enjoy every moment you get to spend with it.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:45

And if either should be more reliable, it should be the simpler, cheaper one...

Wacko > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:45

one thing to consider, is that the GTI wont depreciate as quickly as a Dodge.

Averyrm - GTI YUP > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:46

If you’re into your own wrenching, I find the GTI easier to work on. It’s layout is very ... german ... but it makes more sense to me. I’ve only worked on a challenger a few times but I remember being annoyed at it.

As far as the GTI goes, I’ve only had one check engine light, reset it and it hasn’t come back (slow evap leak, probably the gas cap seal). I average 31mpg. It’s a great car.

Warning: My last three cars were 1970 mercedes 220D, lotus elise, and an RX-8. I may not be the best judge for this.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:56

I’d get something less shit.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:59

In that case just make sure of two things:

1. You can comfortably afford the car payment with money being set aside for any repairs that come up (say a few thousand in cash that you sit on for a big repair 4-5 years in)

2. You have an alternative transport plan if the car is in the shop - second car, friends carpool, uber whatever

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > arl
10/25/2016 at 08:59

Bought a 16 GTI in January. No major issues yet.

The GTI is really three cars; it’s a great little hot hatch you can toss around with abandon, a comfortable highway cruiser that eats miles so easily it’s scary, and an enormous cargo van capable of swallowing large items better than most adult film actresses.

The Dodge is always only loud, uncomfortable, thirsty, and cramped. It has its appeal for sure, but the flaws that give it its character never turn off.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > vondon302
10/25/2016 at 09:01

First and second gen Neons are one of the few good Mopar products.

punkgoose17 > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:01

Find info on the local stealerships. Figure out which one will be less of a PITA to deal with.

bhtooefr > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
10/25/2016 at 09:01

Not necessarily.

Cheaper cars are bought by cheaper people. Case in point, things like a Pontiac Grand Prix having far worse reliability than a Buick Regal.

Also, a lot of Audi’s models actually aren’t common with VWs any more - the closest relation between a US market Audi and a US market VW is the Q7 versus the Touareg, chassis-wise. Powertrain-wise, there’s a fair amount of engines shared, but...

TysMagic > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:07

new or CPO or used with a factory warranty and I think you’re set regardless.
My vote goes for GTI btw or if you want to go totally off the path, join us in the Abarth club

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr
10/25/2016 at 09:07

That’s hardly the car’s fault, is it. Just because the person who buys the cheap model won’t pay to maintain it properly (though that isn’t necessarily the case) while the person who buys the expensive car will keep it up does not mean the cheap car has more problems.

What you’ve done there is not disprove me, you’ve just added more weight to my main point... which is that CR is full of shit.

cazzyodo > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:10

If it helps, CR had the 2013 Focus ST pegged as horrendous for reliability.

I bought one.

Loads of us did.

Sure, they were cursed but overall I haven’t had any issues over 3 years and 40k miles.

Now excuse me while I find a wooden table to knock on.

vondon302 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
10/25/2016 at 09:12

Yup. Before the Mercedes “merger” Mopar was killing it profit wise and I was a fan. Their getting better lately tho.

bhtooefr > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
10/25/2016 at 09:12

Well, marques where the cheap car is close to the expensive car actually indicate that the automaker is good at making cars that hold up well to neglect.

Also, differences in quality of dealer service between brands of a manufacturer absolutely reflect on the manufacturer.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
10/25/2016 at 09:18

I wouldn’t call it cramped, as it’s roomy for a pony car, but even the V6 rides worse than my FiST. That was a shock.

VonBootWilly - Likes Toyota, but it's still complicated. > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:19

carcomplaints.com is one of my “on the fence” go to sites. That, and fuelly for real~ish fuel numbers.

And how does stuff like GMC and Chevrolet end up in different spots, or Buick appearing near the top. CR has always been about as useful as a JD Power initial smell quality and hype factor award that says nothing about how the car will fail in a year, but looked great leaving the dealership based on a once over.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
10/25/2016 at 09:22

Compared to the GTI, it’s cramped.

Roomy for a pony car isn’t much of a compliment either.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr
10/25/2016 at 09:22

It indicates they are good at making good cheap cars and let the ball drop on the expensive ones. In other words, they’re adjusting for the stupid who neglect their cars. But the fact that one doesn’t hold up when service is neglected shouldn’t come as a surprise, and counts against the consumer rather than the manufacturer. In fact, in that situation the cheap car should be ranked far higher due to the greater amount of crap they will go through and shake it off rather than just basing it off raw numbers.

Sometimes, yes, but it also comes down to the dealer. If a dealer isn’t performing at the expected mark on either the cheaper or more expensive brands, that’s the dealers problem. If the service difference is mandated from the manufacturer, that’s a manufacturer issue.

In other words... once again, based on their methods, CR are full of shit.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
10/25/2016 at 09:24

It’s pretty close to the room a Charger has. Actually, those have less room than they should, so you’re probably right. I still can’t believe how uncomfortable they are. I used to think they were the good cruisers of the big three, but no, the Camaro is more comfortable.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:26

One is nearly as fast, has more room, is more comfortable, and gets 30 mpg. The other looks and sounds cool.

Noah - Now with more boost. > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:33

STI

arl > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
10/25/2016 at 09:33

LOL - you have a valid point. I have one of those cars now. An Accord. Fine car. No Problems. I am bored to death driving it.

arl > VonBootWilly - Likes Toyota, but it's still complicated.
10/25/2016 at 09:34

I’ll check out carcomplaints.com as well, thanks.

arl > Wobbles the Mind
10/25/2016 at 09:35

That’s where I’m headed with this choice. There’s a meme somewhere that says “I bought a car once based on a logical decision. It was terrible”.

arl > Averyrm - GTI YUP
10/25/2016 at 09:36

Good to know about your GTI, thanks!

arl > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
10/25/2016 at 09:38

Good to know about your GTI, thanks.

I found the seats in the 17 GTI supremely comfortable. But the 2011 Charger seats were also very comfy. Not as sporty, but certainly much more comfy than the Accord seats. The Accord turns into a cramp-machine for sure after 2-3 hours of driving. Long trips have never been it’s forte.

arl > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
10/25/2016 at 09:39

Yep. You could make that argument for sure.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:43

Thought about getting a second car for fun and weekends instead? Probably cheaper and less nerve-wracking than either of those options and then you don’t have to compromise like you would with a DD. You can get the convertible with no back seats or AC since you don’t live with it.

Tripper > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:47

I have a real life version of that meme. I bought a 2013 Jetta (the 2.slow) brand new because it was “a nice practical car for my commute”. I put 18,000 miles on it in 10 months, then traded it because I hated it and took a huge loss because of it.

Alex Zapata > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:51

GTIs are great cars, people all over the world have them without issue, the new ones I dislike the fake carbon interior but otherwise they’re great, parts should be cheap since they make them in my motherland (Mexico) now.

Chrysler products get a lot of “issue complains” for CR because their infortainment (ugh) systems are shit, otherwise they’re reliable if not very fuel efficient.

bhtooefr > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
10/25/2016 at 09:55

How about cases like Toyota (the cheaper car) being right behind Lexus (the more expensive car), though, at the very top of the list?

How’s that explained by Toyota dropping the ball on the more expensive one, when it’s literally at the top of the list?

crowmolly > arl
10/25/2016 at 09:57

Yes, but there’s less corner cutting/bean counting when your customers have more money to spend.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr
10/25/2016 at 10:05

#1, Toyota is very good at making appliances that just work. #2, there’s this thing called “running into the upper limit”... In other words, if they were in the middle of that pack, would they still be right next to each other? And #3, you’ll notice that even there the cheaper model is below the expensive one... I think you’re dead right on “clueless owner syndrome”.

Something something results should be graded by the customers remarks CR full of shit something

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > arl
10/25/2016 at 10:10

If you’re buying new, hello warranty. Challenger is always good fun, comfy interior, roomy backseat, hello V8 RWD! GTI is a nice little fun hatch. I’d say buy with your heart and enjoy the piss out of either. I have yet to buy a car based on any CR, only on what I actually wanted. Worked out good so far.

arl > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
10/25/2016 at 10:24

Actually yes, I have. Good point. I was considering a Miata. But I don’t have a garage, just a driveway. And I’m a mediocre wrench turner at best. So having a second car sounds great and all, but I think I just need a fun DD. If I had a garage I could park the fun car while I figure how to work on it, it might be an option. But neighbors are not too appreciative of cars up on work stands with clutch parts lying around the ground.

And my old Mazda pickup died recently. Next spring I’m going to need to buy another cheap pickup for home projects. If I got a Miata, and a pickup, and kept my Accord, and had my wife’s car in the driveway, my head would explode from having to maintain, insure, and park 4 cars. Somehow having three vehicles in the driveway seems OK, but four seems really crowded.

arl > Alex Zapata
10/25/2016 at 10:29

Funny you should say that. The infotainment system in my 2011 Charger was far and away the best infotainment I’ve ever used in a car. Excellent UI, easy to use, perfect Bluetooth pairing, great Nav. Simply the best. Until....it died. Flat out dead as a door nail.

Now, I think the car had a short in it that was killing various electrical components (infotainment, CD player, backup camera, etc). But when the info system worked, it was the best I’ve ever used.

arl > Noah - Now with more boost.
10/25/2016 at 10:31

Yea, cool cars. But 40-42K and not great interiors.

For 40K I would look at the Golf R (although it mystifies me why they don’t put a sunroof in the R).

Cash Rewards > arl
10/25/2016 at 10:38

Loved my GTI, did not love the yearly repair bills. It wasn’t unreliable in the “it’ll leave your stranded” sense, but whenever it was in for service, is was “oh, and this is going bad, it’s going to be a several hundred dollar repair preemptively or 4 figures when it goes tits up”. With two kids, couldn’t justify the costs to keep it happy.

yamahog > VonBootWilly - Likes Toyota, but it's still complicated.
10/25/2016 at 10:38

To your second point: The customer demographics by brand tend to affect what I’ll call “pickiness” and that can have an impact. Buicks still trend towards older, very loyal buyers. Luxury buyers can have higher expectations, but economy buyers might have a worse dealership experience. I try to take any customer surveys with a grain of salt, warranty data would probably be a more helpful metric for finding chronic issues.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > arl
10/25/2016 at 10:42

I was never much of a wrencher either. Was always terrified of breaking my dailies. Just having a second car changed all of that and I learned more in a few months playing with my MR2 than I had in the previous decade of car ownership. Before picking that up, I bought a BRZ for my fun daily, but once I got the track rat MR2, the subie ended up being just numb and kind of pointless. Now I’m looking at vehicles that can fill many roles, namely Buick Roadmaster wagons since I can tow the racecar, fix it with parts found on the side of the road, fill it with my sound gear, and seat 8 people.

BKosher84 > arl
10/25/2016 at 10:42

When in doubt. Miata.

HONDAD > arl
10/25/2016 at 11:04

Get that GTI. It’s cheaper to buy and cheaper to fuel, and you say it’s just as fun to drive at the Challenger. If you’re buying new, then you get a 3-year/36,000-mile basic warranty, so you can always dump it in a few years if you aren’t happy with its reliability. BTW, I’ve also been driving Honda Accords for years now and am really thinking my next car will be a GTI too.

Noah - Now with more boost. > arl
10/25/2016 at 11:17

Agreed, the int is offensive. Way better than anything they’ve done so far but still meh. Fake CF trim and tacky red accents on the seats? No thanks. Hopefully Subaru will eventually see the light and actually offer leather/trim options like they do on the legacy. This one size fits all philosophy leaves me cold. That said... I plan on buying a CPO 2015+ STI in 2017 if I can.

arl > HONDAD
10/25/2016 at 11:18

I’m leaning towards the GTI. The extra utility of the 4 doors to haul my wife and kid around are a huge plus.

arl > Noah - Now with more boost.
10/25/2016 at 11:20

Isn’t that weird about Subaru? The Legacy and Outback on the top level trim models is very nice. Why can’t they replicate that on the top level WRX/STI’s? Anyway, still great cars. Good luck on the CPO!

FromCanadaWithLove > arl
10/25/2016 at 11:50

I used to own a 2011 Jetta TDI. That was the most unreliable car imaginable – so I can’t recommend a VW.

Would a BMW 228i/230i be in your budget? I’ve had my 2 series for 2.5 years now, and nothing has ever gone wrong.

arl > FromCanadaWithLove
10/25/2016 at 13:28

I tried to test drive a BMW here in Alexandria VA twice. Both times I called the dealer to verify that the model they listed on their site (a 328i) was in fact, in stock and would be ready for me to drive when I got there.

Both times I showed up at the dealer the sales people were snotty and said they had to pull the car from their storage lot in order for me to test drive it. I sat in a chair for over 20 minutes each time with no sales people talking to me, giving me updates, etc.

After the second time this happened I got up, walked out, and scratched BMW off my list. Bunch of a-holes at my local dealer.

Noah - Now with more boost. > arl
10/25/2016 at 14:19

Thanks! Yeah it’s hilarious - I’d rather sit in a 15 year old outback than a brand new STI.

Nimbus The Legend - Riding on air like a cloud > arl
10/25/2016 at 18:59

i dont rely solely on CR, I go to owners forums and see what the most common and most rare complaints are about the car and go from there...